I imagine that you may get the cold start rattle and earlier cam phaser failure, but at least the engine wont shudder. If your vehicle is equipped with the 3.6L engine and has less than 80,000 miles, it may be eligible for a free of charge power control module (PCM) reprogramming. The engine shudders 21N08 issue can be caused by a variety of factors, including problems with the PCM software, issues with the transmission, or a lack of proper maintenance. Reliability is important to me. Because the 21B10 has expired and the 21N03 is about to expire at the time of this writing, we need to explore what your costs would be if you needed to replace the cam phasers out of your own wallet. Im getting a better understanding on this, now. This generally only affects a low percentage of vehicles that received the 21B10 flash. These are named 21N03 which is targeted to the startup rattle and replaces the cam phasers. (CSP 21N03 and 21N08), Aftermarket Products, Reviews & Installation, Suggestions, Comments & Questions about the Forum. If not, you will want to get the latest computer updates before the warranty expires on it. There is a new Recall specifically for this. 21N08B 1.2 Hours It may not display this or other websites correctly. Certain 2017-2020 Model Year F-150, 2018-2020 Expedition, and 2018-2020 Navigator Vehicles Equipped with a 3.5L GTDI Engine PCM Reprogram Due to Engine Shudder ;In a very low percentage . Advertising - This can be caused by a variety of factors, including a dirty or faulty mass air flow sensor. It may not display this or other websites correctly. Detroit. .any advice? I got it too. Generally, the timing chain, chain tensioners and water pump will be replaced at the same time, driving costs up to about $3,000. The reprogram will update the engine control module (ECM) with new calibration files that are optimized for use with low deposit engines. It was also discussed that the reprogramming could result in a shudder in the drive train which would require further work. Did the re program- to no avail- the engine light back on. The F150 is the best-selling pickup truck in Americaand has been for 45 years. I also don't know if the issue with the Cap Phasers will cause other engine problems down the road. Y'all better read that letter again. This is a free service and should only take about an hour or so to complete. Plenty of better engineered options out there. This just appeared in my ford pass. Advertising - The Ford/GM 10R80 is "defective"? This is outlined in the letter Ford sent to us 2018-2020 Expy owners . Ford TSB 21N08 2019 F-150 | CarComplaints.com Both will appear on the carfax of every affected VIN, which includes 2017 to early 2020 models. You are using an out of date browser. Question about cam phasers and pcm reprogram due to engine - Reddit Recall 21B10 is a campaign by the United States Consumer Product Safety Commission (CPSC) to recall certain models of childrens bicycles. Im a little more willing to whip out the AAA card for the extra fun factor and luxury of a Raptor. Took it to dealer said it was cam phaser issue again. It is not necessary to remove the two left valve cover camshaft sensors. As I read it (not saying I'm right), If you DON'T do the updates, I think Ford will not cover it in the future. Transmission & Electrical Issue - Flashing D, N, and Gears, The wheel nuts for the Expedition 2015 are not compatible with the wheel wrench. Likes: 1. Your car should also be outside of its warranty in order to keep from voiding a warranty on your car. Privacy Statement - Trading start-up clicking for what sounds like a power neuter job and a "shudder" is nuts. The shudder may be felt during light acceleration, at speeds between 30-40 mph, and can last for a couple of seconds. 1997 F150 stalls when defrost turned on full, Do Not Sell or Share My Personal Information. Fords brilliant idea was to revert the programming back to the original level. Are CSP's only performed as needed? (CSP 21N03 and 21N08) Manage Preferences - The Program 21N08 PCM Reprogram is designed to address an engine shudder . Hello mjpatera! If youve recently had your engine repaired or replaced, the new parts may not be compatible with the old PCM programming. If Ford was serious about this they would offer customers compensation as Volkswagen did. So far, these recalls have been effective at solving the problem and improving customer satisfaction. The PCM reprogramming process is often recommended as a solution to the engine shudder 21N08 issue. This resolves the cam phaser noise on startup issue (you know, the annoying Ford cold start cam phaser rattle). Any shop with an IDS scan tool will be able to check your car for transmission codes. Buy or Avoid? 2nd Gen with #21B10 and #21N08 and - Ford Raptor Forum But unlike my previous trucks, this ones not going to be an overlander or rock crawler that needs to not leave me stranded in the middle of nowhere. If your Ford vehicle is experiencing an engine shudder, its important to get it checked out by a professional as soon as possible. There are several F150s, Expeditions, and Navigators that needed a PCM reprogram due to an Engine shudder. Hi guys, I am pretty new F150 owner (2019 new to me bought about a month ago) and noticed on my ford pass app that I have two notices in my recalls section: CSP 21N03 CAM PHASERS and 21N08 PCM REPROGRAM DUE TO ENGINE SHUDDER. . I ended up having it in the shop 4 times between 3 different dealerships and none of them could fix the issue. We cover this rattle in detail and how to fix it for free. Manage Preferences - Cookie Policy - So far, the results are positive. Field Service Action: 21N08 "PCM Reprogram Due to Engine Shudder". Program #21N08 PCM REPROGRAM DUE TO ENGINE SHUDDER; Manufacturer Customer Satisfaction Program issued. This is the PCM update to prevent cam phaser rattle and will erase your tune. But what exactly is engine shudder? Cookie Policy - But, this process cant be run in an unauthorized way. '22 camera issue made worse by dealer and others issues not resolved. This removes the shudder. @Stevec1129 I haven't had the chance to try this yet, but I'm really hoping this new recall I see for my truck fixes the issue. Are CSP's only performed as needed? You are using an out of date browser. This newer field service action 21N08 software update is designed to solve the motor shuddering problem caused by the 21B10 reflash. Strange first post. I now have 85k miles. Had my cam phasers done back in July. 5. Program 21N08 will be performed if your vehicle exhibits an engine shudder during light throttle operation between 1,500 and 2,500 rpm. By updating the software that controls the PCM, the PCM can better control the engine and transmission. Contact Us - Until I get some specifics on what the reprograms do, I'm holding off. While there may be other potential remedies for the engine shudder 21N08 issue, the PCM reprogramming process is often the most effective and efficient solution. If your Raptor is experiencing engine shudder, you may need to have the PCM (powertrain control module) reprogrammed. Getting the parts changed out by a poorly trained monkey when not needed is risky in my opinion. If the PCM software is incorrect or outdated, it can cause the engine to shudder or shake. JavaScript is disabled. I had the original work done under warranty 54k . These guys are simply trying to Band-Aid a crap design. Send us a private message with your F-150's VIN. 21N08? - Ford Truck Enthusiasts Forums However, the increased oil in the cam phasers may affect engine performance, especially when cruising at a steady speed. 21N08 update, So I do not know if should pull the trigger or not. How can I verify my PCM is extended to 70k? Program 21N08 Pcm Reprogram Due to Engine Shudder The truck. I will see what I can do to assist with this acceleration concern. The initial cam phasers rattle would generally first appear on a cold start due to a lack of oil. Automated page speed optimizations for fast site performance, Benefits of reprogramming the PCM to address the engine shudder 21N08 issue, Improving performance and fuel efficiency. Field Service Action: 21N08 "PCM Reprogram Due to Engine Shudder", Yep -- what ASV said. GEN 2 (2017-2020) Ford F-150 Raptor Forums, Ford F-150 Raptor General Discussions [GEN 2], Need some help ASAP Code P06B6/ Faulty PCM, Ford SVT Raptor General Discussions [GEN 1], Ford Raptor Engine Discussion and Performance Mods, Hmmm? If it becomes corrupted or damaged, it can cause all sorts of problems including engine shudder. Within a day or less, the cam phaser was rattling again and my engine was shuddering. Terms of Service - If you are an astute shopper, you might have found these issues before buying a vehicle. Theyll be able to determine if the problem is due to a faulty PCM and can reprogram it accordingly. might be auto on/off that truck comes equipped with, There is a new Recall specifically for this. Cookie Policy - The open recalls are unrelated to the transmission. The 21N08 is a pcm reprogram due to engine shudder that reverts the programming back to the original programming prior to the 21B10 reflash. JavaScript is disabled. Otherwise, further diagnostics will be required to determine cause of shudders. If it is, theyll likely recommend getting the pcm reprogrammed. Two versions of PCM calibrations - the regular one (21B10) and one for if you experience engine shudders with the regular one (21B10S2). make a purchase, we may earn a small commission. Ford 5.4 Engine Life Expectancy . were completed so that you will be covered by the Ford warranty of 70k miles regarding cam phasers/VCT systems. I brought my 2019 F-150 3.5 EB in for the recall. So they basically work 15 hours but get paid only 10 hours. We are a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for us to earn fees by linking to Amazon.com and affiliated sites. If a car is not regularly maintained, it can lead to problems such as the engine shudder 21N08 issue. When it comes to tools, home improvement, and being a shade tree mechanic, youve come to the right spot. I'm assuming this is like a TSB. This generally only affects a low percentage of vehicles that received . Terms of Service - So I should probably find out what this transmission repair is. I noticed mine is doing this as well. Are you saying the vehicles primarily affected by the engine shudder were poorly maintain or ran low on oil? I was told by my dealer that any FSA'S that have a "B" in them is a fix they are required to do. Dealer called and said bill would be $1200. The benefits of reprogramming the PCM to address the engine shudder 21N08 issue include: By updating the software that controls the PCM, the PCM can better control the engine and transmission, which can help to eliminate the engine shudder. PDF TECHNICAL SERVICE BULLETIN 20- 3.5L EcoBoost - Cold Start Ticking One of the most common issues that you may face is to program 21n08 PCM to reprogram due to engine shudder. Hey all, I am looking to buy my first full size truck and very interested in a used F-150 3.5L EcoBoost, all because of being good in gas consumption and the amazing towing capability. Cam phaser rattle back and check engine light on. If your Ford car or truck is experiencing engine shudder, it could be the result of a variety of different issues. Contact Us - Ford F-150 Raptor General Discussions [GEN 3], Ford Raptor Engine Discussion and Performance Mods, Ford F-150 Raptor General Discussions [GEN 2], Hmmm? The truck seems to be driving fine, although I did have some cam/crank codes last month and went to dealer where they performed TSB 21-2357 and SSM 48423. Id like to know whats causing this as well. States PCM reprogram due to engine shudder, is this anyway related to 21B03. So you need to verify with your dealership with your VIN that the recall repairs have been done. FSA 21N08 | Ford Raptor Forum The following errors occurred with your submission, Ford F150 Forum - Community of Ford Truck Fans, Aftermarket Products, Reviews & Installation, Suggestions, Comments & Questions about the Forum, Send a private message to VelocityBlue2020, Do Not Sell or Share My Personal Information.